The M+G+R Foundation

The Private Forum

June 2009


PURPOSE

The purpose of this Private Forum is to share with members of our Mailing List  the response to and/or comment of correspondence that we may receive from time to time and which is of Universal interest in these very unsettling times. Each List Member, may, at his/her discretion, share this page with others.

We reserve the right to choose what questions to address and how to transcribe the question and/or statement from the correspondence received. The identity of the correspondent will be kept confidential except in the case of abusive correspondence which will then be referred to the appropriate responsible entities.

 

You are invited to be an instrument in keeping this Ministry active.
 It is now in your hands to do so!



From JT @ USA - Published on June 28th, 2009


Although I haven't read all of your documents, your document on papal infallibility implys that the RC church teaches that all the decisions of the pope are supposed to be infallible. This is not the RC teaching, which is that only those pronouncements which were made ex cathedra are infallible.

If you disagree with some of these few ex cathedra statements, I would be interested in which ones.

You obviously agree with some, such as the Immaculate Conception, and since there are very few of these pronouncements, I'm not sure which you disagree with.

JT

A.
Since you are the one who claims that we are in the wrong, please carefully review our document on Infallibility (1) and point out in detail where you think that we may have erred. It is you who must defend your claim.

In addition, you specifically asked:
"If you disagree with some of these few ex cathedra statements, I would be interested in which ones." we will address that question now.

Any notion that the canonization of an individual falls under the infallible veil, we - in the Name of God - rebuke it.

Thank your for the opportunity to clarify this issue as well as the meaning of the Keys of the Kingdom. (2)
______________________
(1)  About Papal Infallibility
(2)  The Keys of the Kingdom


From WO @ USA - Published on June 24th, 2009
[Traditional celebration of the birth of John the Baptist]

May Christ bless you!
 
In reference to your - The Game Plan  (1) - among other things, what struck me is that we need to be very careful when we recite the words of the Creed - Apostle's or that of the Council of Nicea. If I am in any way wrong in what I say here, please do correct me!
 
Specifically the phrase:" ....and I believe in one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic church (Nicene) or 'the holy Catholic church' (Apostle's)". I think that one must be very careful in uttering or mentally praying this. One must understand this as being "catholic" (lower case 'c', meaning the one universal church founded by Jesus & loyal to Him)....... NOT as "Catholic" (upper case "C") meaning the man-made organization run amuck, heaquartered in the Vatican - complete with its EENS so-called 'dogma". To understand and believe what we are praying here in these phrases as belief in the Faith........ not "the "Church". These phrases, drilled into our heads since childhood are spiritual/theological "tiger traps"!
 
On a related point (and I am NOT a Latin or Greek scholar!) in a TV presentation given by some Protestant minister, the point was made that the word "church" did not exist in the time of Christ; but the Latin word "ecclesia" (and its Greek root) did. There would seem to be a big difference between the two words/concepts. "Church" has its roots in German & Scandinavian languages ( i.e. kirk, kirche = church)...... which refers to both a physical building and to an "assembly"; which is the common understanding of the term in reference to a group/organization. On the other hand ":Ecclesia" (the word uttered by Christ) in its Greek root means something completely different. My understanding is that it means "out-calling" or "ones called out....... selected". "It is not too much of a stretch to see how this can be perceived to mean, by extension, "the Elect".
 
Therefore, if what I understand is correct (and explained properly here) this serves to reinforce what you have said about "the Rock" and the rest of the words which Our Lord spoke to Peter........ which have been misappropriated to refer to the Vatican. There is a big difference between what we call "the church" being the ones "called out from among men by God"........ and "an assembly....... building........ organization...... hiearchial structure....... multi-billion dollar/multinational money machine". Of course if you look in a dictionary you will find that "ecclesia" (and all of its grammatical offshoots) are claimed now to refer to "church".

In addition, I find a problem in the 2nd paragraph of the original Latin (or a COMPETENT translation into English - not what you find in a Missalette!). From said paragraph it would appear that Christ was either 'hatched' or the product of same-sex reproduction - long before Mary enters the picture. In English:

"....born of the Father before all ages.......begotten, not made...".

In latin:

 "...et ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula........genitum, non factum..."

Begotten
= of natural procreation. If God has no beginning, is eternal, is uncreated, then this makes no sense - as this must apply to all three persons of the Trinity.That Jesus was 'born' in Time, via the action of the Holy Ghost, of the Virgin Mary is another matter, described in a subsequent paragraph in the Nicene Creed.

I hope I am not misunderstanding something here or wasting your time.

 How utterly diabolical!
 
You remain in my daily prayers.

WO


A.
Thank you for the opportunity to address this issue as well as for your prayers. We are neither Latin nor Greek scholars but - in general terms - we agree with your "church" word analysis.

Now - to the point. We have not prayed the Nicean Creed for some time because, as we may have written years ago, it is theologically incorrect.  It denies the Trinity in more ways than one; one of which you have pointed.

On the other hand, the Apostles Creed is essentially flawless and that is the Creed we pray with only one small change.

Where it reads "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints...." we have changed it to
"I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Faith (2), the communion of saints....". Today's common usage dictates that when we say "Catholic Church" it basically means the "Roman Catholic Church Administration" and, in them, we certainly do not believe as we have made crystal clear. (3)
 
____________________________________________________
(1) The Game Plan
(2) Our full endorsement of the key and basic tenets of the Catholic Faith
(3) Our Position about the Roman Catholic Church Administration - Part I and Part II



From LP @ US - Published on June 20th  [Feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary]

Supposedly, the Ark of the Covenant is about to be revealed by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which claim to have had custody of it for centuries in the city of Axum.
 
A brief English summary of the news article in Italian (1)
 
It's official: The Orthodox Patriarch of Ethiopia, Abuna Pauolos, announced yesterday in Rome that the Lost Ark is in Ethiopia and will be shown to the public and permanently exposed in a museum.

The Patriarch will meet the Pope this week and will make the official world announcement next Friday from Rome.
 
If this story is real, it does not yet have "legs" in the mainstream media.
 
Let me suppose, for the sake of argument, that the "Ark" discussed in the story is authentic, and will indeed be unveiled soon to the public. Nevertheless, it seems to me that it would not have REAL theological significance, although it would be a "phenomenon" that Temple Masters of various groups could exploit to great and harmful effect. Nevertheless:
 
(a) The Ark was at the core of the Jewish Temple ... but didn't the Presence of God leave the Temple before the exile to Babylon, or certainly with the Crucifixion and the tearing of the veil in two?

(b) Why be concerned with a man-made (and once-blessed) Ark of the temple made with hands ... when Christ has entered the temple not made with hands and intercedes for us?

(c) If the Ark is a symbol or foreshadowing of the Real Presence, then it seems to me that the Eucharist - in which Jesus is present, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity - is greater than the Ark.

(d) In the Divine Liturgy (or some other Orthodox prayer), it is said that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant, since she bore Christ in her womb. If the ark was a symbolic box containing the Ten Commandment Tablets, wouldn't Mary - a living woman who "contained" Jesus till she gave birth to Him - be greater than any Ark?

If a physical artifact is brought forth with great fanfare on earth as the real Ark, its finding could be one of the Deceiver’s evil “signs and portents” (2 Thessalonians 2:9).  (2)

LP


A.
We have reviewed a responsible documentary hosted by Josh Bernstein about the Ark and Ethiopia. We have also read some about it. The claim does hold water, so to speak, but, as you have pointed out, even if it contained the original tablets with the Ten Commandments, for Catholics - East and West - it should only have historical and confirming value.

Yes, the Tablets were engraved by God and that is indeed a Miracle and proof of Divine Intervention but so was the Incarnation of the Word of God and  the Miracle of the Sun at Fátima, for example.

The New Ark of the Covenant is indeed Mary since the New Covenant was manifested in the person of Jesus Christ. His Eucharistic Presence is at the center of the Catholic Faith - and it should certainly be. Unfortunately, generally speaking, neither priestly class nor lay class demonstrate such belief by their actions. They focus the attention and adoration more on graven or sculpted images.

At this point - and not excluding any other exploitation of the event for hellish purposes - the only real significance that it could have would be:

For those who are pushing to build the Third Temple - Christians and Jews alike - the appearance of the Ark of the Covenant would signal the "go ahead" from Heaven to build the Third Temple - come the proverbial "hell or high water".

Were that the case, one can easily imagine what such scenario will do to the already-existing strife in the Middle East.... but then again, such is the schedule.

_____________________
(1)  Il Patriarca d'Etiopia: "Il mondo conoscerà l'Arca dell'Alleanza" - Adnkronos Altro
(2)   Biblical Prophecies of the Second Coming of Christ



From  (Mrs.) IW @ US - Published on June 18th, 2009

The scenario that you present regarding the essential way that the US may be removed from the one world "big picture" (1) is one that I have believed will occur since initially reading Catholic prophecy some 20+ years ago now.

The US will have to be effectively "neutralized" by some major continent wide "disaster" --- whether it be by man made or Divine intervention --- so that the rest of the prophecies can unfold.  I present a twist to your scenario.

What if Obama is the actual catalyst to remove the US from the world stage by his policies and thus making the US vulnerable to attack?  He is demolishing all that I have ever known to be dear to the USA (I am 54 years old) --- he is slowly and insidiously removing our freedoms and our rights as US citizens and opening us up to a military attack or a certain financial disaster.

I believe that Obama is a Muslim at heart and he is a pawn for the Muslim fanatics... I am not sure that he doesn't have a "suicide bomber" mentality and is willing to be sacrificed to further the Muslim cause or the New World Order..... I will not be surprised if he is martyred for his "cause" but I most certainly will not consider it something he does for the good of the citizens of the US.
 
My prayers for you continue.  Please pray for us also ....such is the sad state of affairs here in metro Detroit, MI...

(Mrs.) IW

A.  As we have stated before, ultimately President Obama is not in charge any more than President Bush was. What people can see is only "Window dressing" but the overall plan continues on track (2). The Obama election was only a reflection of the delay that God granted (and was announced by us in early 2009) and not a change of routing.

The "Muslim Conspiracy" you, and many others allude to brings to mind the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (3) conspiracy that started circulating in the early 20th century with the intent of fanning the hate against Jews; a hate that saw its first manifestation in the Nazi holocaust. From what we understand, the Muslim version of that publication is a certain book (4) written by Desmond A. Birch.

It is understandable that most cannot see what is truly taking place in preparation for the manifestation of the False Christ. Allow us to present it another fashion. Let us rewind all the way back to the time of Abraham and Sarah.... not, let us not do that now. God has just now revealed so much information about the parallel we have made that we will have to write a full document on the subject matter.

We must Thank you! since, as it often happens, once we focused on a questions/concerns that we must address the Divine "download" was almost instantaneously.

You may be assured of our prayers 

______________________________
(1)
June 15th Post in Did you know that....?
(2) Details of the Establishment of a New International Order
(3) Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
(4)  Trial, Tribulation & Triumph: Before, During, and After Antichrist


From  (Mr.) IW @ US - Published on June 15th, 2009

I became curious about whether or how Antichrist (AC) is mentioned in the Catechism of Trent, and in the Catechism of H.H. John Paul II.
 
In the Catechism of Trent (1)
there is one mention of the AC (on p. 70 of this on-line edition):
 
================ 
The Sacred Scriptures inform us that the general judgment will be preceded by these three principal signs: the preaching of the Gospel throughout the world, a falling away from the faith, and the coming of Antichrist. This gospel of the kingdom, says our Lord, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come. The Apostle also admonishes us that we be not seduced by anyone, as if the day of the Lord were at hand; for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the judgement will not come. 
================
 
They said as little as possible about the AC. It might have been so (a) because it was not yet time for more to be revealed, as of the 1500s, or (b) for ulterior reasons: protecting the Hierarchy, or (c) for some other reason that you might know.
 
There is more in the Catechism of H.H. John Paul II -
The Church's ultimate trial  (2):
 

=================
 
675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576

676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.578

677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581

680 Christ the Lord already reigns through the Church, but all the things of this world are not yet subjected to him. The triumph of Christ's kingdom will not come about without one last assault by the powers of evil.
=================
 
I bring this up because of a question that came to me last night: - a concern that the teaching in the Catechism might direct people away from expecting a False Christ, and toward expecting "merely" a secular-humanist assault from outside the Church.
 
- Para. 675 does warn against a "religious deception" that tempts men to apostasy, a defection from true Faith. But the last sentence of the paragraph is vague on whether the Antichrist/False Christ (AC/FC) is an individual, or a collectivity. It would have read very differently if it had said, "a pseudo-messianism by which a man glorifies himself in place of God ... "
 
- Para. 676 warns explicitly against the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism ... a warning that is on-target against Communism and against a Gorbachev-style New World Order ... but para. 676 leaves people unaware of the right-wing variant of the New World Order and of the churchly origins and claims of the deceiver(s).
 
- Para. 677 ties the Second Coming to the end of the world; as might be expected, there is no reference to a millennial reign of Christ.
 
In summary: It does seem that most readers of these paragraphs will be put on their guard against Obama and Gore and Gorbachev ... and will not be alerted against the spiritual sons of Escriva.
 
And yet, with these deficiencies, in these paragraphs the Roman Catholic Church is saying more "officially" about the AC/FC than it has in a very long time, if ever.

(Mr.) IW
__________________________
(1) On-line Catechism of Trent
(2) Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 2 ARTICLE 7


A.
In reference to the lack of  information on
the AntiChrist in the Catechism of Trent...

The human reason for the lack of information was the abysmal darkness the Church Administrators lived in at the time. If we review how they practiced, and led others to practice, the Faith, it becomes obvious that they neither understood the Scriptures, in general, nor the Good News clearly spelled out by Jesus, in particular. As we have often said: Pillage, plunder and the slaughter of human beings - under any circumstance -  are totally foreign to Jesus and His teachings.

The Supernatural reason was that Biblical prophecy about the End of These Times was to be clearly explained now and to be understood only by those who should.

Regarding the statements you quote from the Catechism of H.H. John Paul II...

We addressed part of this issue on May 21, 2004, as a Note to an existing document. The text of said Note follows:

Carefully note that what is meant by  "...this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism..."   is not the real thousand years spoken of in Revelation 20:1-10.

What the Catechism is warning the faithful about - maybe unknowingly - is the "falsification of the kingdom", that is, when the False Christ, about whom we have written and warned the faithful about, will try to convince people to work with him to achieve the real thousand years of peace and prosperity. This "falsification of the kingdom" would be  "the 'intrinsically perverse' political form of a secular messianism" that you alluded to in Paragraph No. 676.  and 

Mercifully, those who need to be alerted to avoid falling in the error, thus deception, that you mentioned in the closing of your letter, will find it in our documents regarding the New World Order (1) and the One Universal Religion (2) and the links from them.

We thank your for giving us the opportunity to address these issues in this forum.

_______________________________________
(1) 
New International World Order
(2) 
One Universal Religion



From  (Mr.) IC @ Philippines - Published on June 12th, 2009

Brethren,  Thanks largely to the work you all do.

I believe most of us had been "sensitized" enough to have seen coming what you have highlighted in your latest mailing (1).

Recently, I had come across an article (2) that made me think that this “pandemic” or some similar “crisis” could be linked to it.

Quite frankly, I would be very relieved if you can tell me that I'm just jumping at shadows.

 Yours in Christ.

 IC

A.
For many years miguel de Portugal (3) lived with a dual "mind set".

On the one hand, once he gave God his "Yes", he followed the instructions given by God to the proverbial "T". The nature of the  Instructions were: (a) What to say (or write), to whom and when; (b) What prayers and sacrifices to offer and their purpose and intent; and (c) Where to go - geographically - and prophecy.

On the other hand he tried to believe that he was, as you said, only  "jumping at shadows." - but never failing to follow His Instructions.

Eventually - as miguel saw manifested in the world what he was announcing in the Name, and by the command of God and he saw the unmistakable results of his following the Instructions given by God, he finally had to admit to himself that he was not "jumping at shadows". Then, the dual "mind set" ceased.

Why the need of such duality from, say, from 1991 through 1998? To protect his sanity. If God had revealed to miguel in 1991 the responsibilities in store for him, most likely he would have died of shock.

We regret that such is all the relieve that we can offer you and I pray that we have been able to, not only "sensitize" you, but all others who have come in contact with us.

 _________________________
(1) See Footnote no. 1 in the June 12th posting of our Points to Ponder About page.
(2)  Saudi files for 'killer' tracking chip patent
(3) About miguel de Portugal


From  (Mr.) WS @ USA - Published on June 10th, 2009

There was an article in yesterday's Washington Post Outlook Section by Gorbachev (1).  It was titled "We had our Perestroika.  It's high time for yours!"   Is this a harbinger or the Road map to the End of this Age?
 
Maybe this would be the Wikipedia article for Restructuring of the US paraphrasing the article on Perestroika:

The Restructuring reforms began the process leading to the dismantling of the United State's economy and its replacement with a socialistic economy. However, the process arguably exacerbated already existing social and economic tensions within the United States, and no doubt helped to further socialism and fragmentation of the Federal Government into 10 political regions. The economic chaos that began with Restructuring helped both to empower organized crime and allowed businessmen with the right connections to amass great personal fortunes as oligarchs. Federal Government directors, regional Governors and Senior Military have become multi-millionaires; National leaders have become multi-billionaires. The economic constraints instituted by the Dictator (my comment: not Obama) under Restructuring and the problems caused by these reforms arguably helped to begin the unraveling of American society and hastened the end of the United States.

(Mr.) WS

A.
To answer your question bluntly: Yes; that article is a harbinger and the Road map to the End of this Age.

We have been telling the world about Gorbachev's Agenda (2), an agenda which was not kept secret by him, but no one has bothered to believe it. He even went on Portuguese prime time TV to explain to a panel of interviewers that "My time has not come yet." (3) We watched the program in disbelief because the panelists acted as if they did not hear him. It was as if someone was saying: "It looks like rain." and the response given was "Pass the salt, please."

  The man has been calling for a New World Order since 1988! Three years before George Bush Sr. publicly endorsed it.
(4)

This is why we cannot take any - President Obama included - world leader nor the press seriously. If all of them are so blind as to not understand - and act upon - what has been pre announced and is already taking place all we can do is to pray for them (5) so that their actions are guided by God.

[Although we must admit that the temptation of mocking them publicly for what they really are is great; however, thanks be to God Charity won and we will refrain.]

As God guides the hopelessly disoriented and confused efforts of the world leaders to "fix the world",  the suffering that awaits the world will be minimized as Divine Justice is dispensed and prophecy fulfilled.

As a closing remark:  In an effort to find the address of the original article we ran a Google Search. To our amazement, the only other major newspaper which featured the exact same article was Iran's The Tehran Times (6) 

__________________________________
(1)  Story in the Washington Post
(2)  Gorbachev informs the world of his plans
(3)  My time has not come yet
(4)  Gorbachev's announces the need for One World Order in 1988 and George Bush Sr. announced it in the 1991 State of the Union Address
(5) What can we do? Part I and Part II
(6)  Article in Tehran Times


From (Mr.) MD @ USA - Published on June 6th, 2009 [First Saturday of the Month and Trinity Sunday Eve]

Peace Miguel!

I just finished (re-)reading your document titled "On Defense of His Holiness John Paul II," (1) and it's interesting (to me, at least) to see where Benedict XVI is now calling for a "change of mentality" within the church (2) ( you probably have already seen this ) with an ecclesial conference on "Church Membership and Pastoral Co-responsibility."

It sure sounds like there's a little "Opus Dei" inside this new mentality:

"There should be a renewed becoming aware of our being Church and of the pastoral co-responsibility that, in the name of Christ, all of us are called to carry out," the Holy Father said. This co-responsibility should advance "respect for vocations and for the functions of consecrated persons and lay people," he added.

So perhaps my mind is just trying to create something that isn't really there.  But if Opus Dei's basic philosophy is that "ordinary Catholics who are neither priests nor monks" should "aspire to be a saint, [and] that sanctity is within the reach of everyone, not just a few special individuals" (quoting from Wikipedia), then what really is the difference between what Benedict XVI is encouraging and what Escrivá believed and taught?

To be honest - if the situation in my parish is typical of what goes on in (at least American) parishes elsewhere -  it sounds more like Benedict XVI's "new mentality" ultimately will become an official burden (guilt) laid on the already spiritually starving parishioners to yet do even more to "keep the church running."

From my perspective there seems to be less-and-less concern for feeding the sheep and more "how can we fit this yoke on the sheep" with what this "new mentality" (and Opus Dei) are all about.

Maybe in my incomplete knowledge of both Opus Dei and this "new mentality" of Benedict XVI's I'm unable to see the good in all this... but God does work in mysterious ways!

May God continue to bless you!

MD


A. Yes, God indeed works in mysterious ways by showing to only those who seek Him, the Truth and expose the deceit. That is why Jesus spoke in parables [Matthew 13:13].

Your perspective of the events that are taking place at the heart of the Vatican is right on target - The regression of the Church Administration to the pre Vatican II days of darkens (3) - while extolling the greatness of Vatican II - is the "name of their game".  Who would function in such manner besides those who take the orders from hell?

Indeed the Opus Dei propaganda sounds piously appealing - "aspire to be a saint" but what most cannot see is the hidden truth - an inducement and exaltation to glorify the self. As Don Bosco
(4) showed by example - man's greatest aspiration should be to serve God and not to follow some man-made "Way" to exalt oneself above others. (5)

What can we expect from a man who dares to write a pamphlet and call it "The Way" when, as he should have known - as every true Christian should know - that Jesus Christ IS the only Way. What can we expect from a man who has induced the followers of his personality cult (6) to engrave on his tomb "The Father"?

Summarizing: That "new" mentality Benedict wants the Church to change to is the same mentality that had already rendered the Church broken by the time of Francis of Assisi lived - broken to an extent that Jesus had to ask Francis to repair it.  That "new" mentality is the same that has failed miserably in the most fundamental of their functions: Evangelize the world.... and not Catechize the world.

Thanks be to God that all of that will be swept by God, once and for all, to the bottom of the pool of fire [Rev. 19:20]

_____________________
(1) 
On Defense of His Holiness John Paul II
(2)  http://www.zenit.org/article-26023?l=english
(3) About Vatican Council II - Debunking the Myth
(4)
Don Bosco's Trajectory
(5) Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God. [2Thess. 2:3-4]
(6) The difference between a Sect and a Cult


From (Mr.) KD @ USA - Published on June 3rd, 2009

In reference to your June 2nd posting in the Did you know that....? (1) page - You may have answered this question before, but could you tell us when the forty-two months began?

Thank you very much.

Sincerely yours,

KD

A.
What we have said and gladly repeat again is that those forty-two units of time measure years as well as months, with the forty-two months being included in the forty-two year span.

That is as explicit as we can be for the already explained (2) reasons.

___________________
(1) 
Did you know that...?
(2)
Why we should not give out specific time frames.


From (Mr.) BK @ USA - Posted on May 31st, 2009 [Feast of the Pentecost and Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary]


I am having a difficult time accepting that what we were taught as children, that through the Catholic Church is the only way to Heaven, is erroneous.  What ever happened to the EENS dogma?  Is that also in error?

BK

A.
Before answering the questions What ever happened to the EENS dogma?  Is that also in error? we had to look up what the EENS dogma was since we were not aware of such term. To say anything else, would be lying and that is not part of God's teachings although one would think otherwise from what we have witnessed for over 1600 years.

This is what we found out:

The Latin phrase Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS), means: "Outside the Church there is no salvation".

This expression comes from the writings of Saint Cyprian of Carthage, a bishop of the third century. The axiom is often used as short-hand for the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church which asserts that the Catholic Church is absolutely necessary for salvation. The theological basis for this doctrine is founded on the Catholic beliefs that (1) Jesus Christ personally established the Catholic Church, according to the Catholic interpretation of Matthew 16:18; and, (2) that the Church serves as the means by which the graces won by Christ are communicated to believers.
(1)

We have fully  addressed this issue in our document Dominus Iesus
(2). However - to sum it up: There is indeed salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church!

What kind of god would place such condition on any of his creatures considering the track record of the Administration of said church?
(3)

Would the Roman Catholic Church Administrators accept the liability then for the results of a failed Evangelization? (4)  After all - the True and Living God is indeed all powerful and, just as Don Bosco's (5)  Evangelization effort was such a roaring success that even the enemies of Rome wanted him to spread his work in anticlerical Italy, Rome could have done it if they would have not started serving mammon instead of the True and Living God when Constantine purchased (6) the Roman Church.

Therefore - It is to Rome's advantage to "spread the blame" rather than to assume it de facto as the embodiment of the only means to Salvation. They already have their hands full with trying to justify before the Throne of Judgment why they, through blatant inaction, were accessories
(7) of the greatest holocaust humanity has ever endured - World War II.

Once again - let no one forget that we make a clear distinction between the Catholic Faith
(8) and the Roman Catholic Church Administration. (9)

Let us not forget how that such a dichotomy is possible:  Even satan must serve God and the True and Living God would not abandon His children at this very critical time in the history of Creation - thus He ensured that we had access to the supernatural assistance provided by the Holy Sacraments.
(10)

Thank you again for the opportunity.

________________________________________
(1) Source
(2) Dominus Iesus
(3) An overview of the Papacy
(4)  What Went Wrong? Part I - Part II - Part III - Part IV
(5) Don Bosco proved it could be done against all odds!
(6) Constantine - not the successor of Peter -  presided over the Holy Nicean Council
(7) The disobedience of Rome cost the world over 50 million deaths
(8) Our full endorsement of the key and basic tenets of the Catholic Faith
(9) Our Position about the Roman Catholic Church Administration - Part I and Part II
(10) The Sacraments and the Graces associated with them - an example.






Past Private Forums

Private Forum - May 2009
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Private Forum - March 2009
Private Forum - February 2009

Private Forum - January 2009
Private Forum - December 2008

Private Forum - November 2008
Private Forum - October 2008

Private Forum - September 2008
Private Forum - August 2008

Private Forum - July 2008
Private Forum - June 2008

Private Forum - May 2008
Private Forum - April 2008

Private Forum - March 2008
Private Forum - February 2008



Last Public Forum - October 2007 - Edition Files

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